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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0000586ScribusStory Editor / Text Framespublic2016-04-11 19:53
ReporterTsoots Assigned To 
PrioritynormalSeverityfeatureReproducibilityalways
Status acknowledgedResolutionopen 
Product Version1.3.3cvs 
Summary0000586: Several baselines for one document.
DescriptionI could use several baselines on one document. If I have two facing pages and on both of them are separate articles and both articles have some leading text on above the article. I'd love to set the leading text with a little larger font and perhaps even bold and still being able to align lines of these two lead texts on separate pages.
With the current situation I must choose if i want to use my baseline for leading texts or for article texts either way I must use much more work to align either ones of them without the baseline. In this situation It would be really handy to have two different baselines with two different line heights. Then in paragraph styles I could choose to which baseline this paragraph belongs.
TagsCJK
Patch

Relationships

duplicate of 0009218 closedchristoph_s Baseline options everywhere 
has duplicate 0002930 closed Per-frame baseline grid 
has duplicate 0004145 closedchristoph_s Several columns with dropped cap : lines are not on the same line 
related to 0003865 closedjghali Lock first line to baseline grid. 

Activities

christoph_s

2005-07-21 00:41

administrator   ~0005652

I assume you mean some kind of frame based baseline grid. Interesting, no doubt. It would provide a lot of flexibility. I wonder if the new file format will allow for that. Maybe malex can comment on that.

mkoren

2006-12-03 21:27

reporter   ~0013748

I'm not sure this request as stated is quite the same as frame-based grids as in 0002930. Having a per-frame grid that paragraph text in the frame can snap to (but that's internal to and moves with the frame) is one thing, and having multiple grids in the document as a whole to align text across frames is another, yes? IMO both could be useful.

How about a hierarchy--one or more grids could be defined for the document, each page, and each frame. You set a default for the document/page, and a frame uses that by default, but you can select an alternate page/document grid, or define a local frame grid instead for that frame to use. Text styles with lock to grid enabled would use the frame's grid by default, or they can specifically specify a grid to use (by name?).

Tsoots

2006-12-03 21:35

manager   ~0013749

Basically what i'd like to have is to just tell scribus that this doc has these baselines. This would allow me to have 12pt and 14pt baselines. Then in a paragraph style of my 10pt body text I could tell it to use 12pt baseline and my 12pt leading texts to use 14pt baseline. So originally my idea was just to have multiple baselines in a doc exactly like we now have only a single one.

avox

2006-12-03 21:44

administrator   ~0013752

There will be per-frame baseline grids in the future. Also necessary for rotated text boxes. But I still think the reference point should not move with the frame...

Tsoots

2006-12-03 21:55

manager   ~0013753

"But I still think the reference point should not move with the frame..."

Exactly, if it moved these baselines couldn't be used to align text lines between frames which originally was one of the reasons for me to submit this bug.

mkoren

2006-12-15 02:55

reporter   ~0013935

>>> Exactly, if it moved these baselines couldn't be used to align text lines between frames which originally was one of the reasons for me to submit this bug.

Of course, that's why I thought this bug is different than the idea of per-frame _grids_ (as opposed to per-frame selection of an external grid to use).

>>> There will be per-frame baseline grids in the future. Also necessary for rotated text boxes. But I still think the reference point should not move with the frame...

What exactly is a per-frame grid if it doesn't move with the frame? I would have thought the idea was that multiple paragraphs, columns, etc. within the frame could all snap to the frame's grid for internal consistency, without having to snap to an external grid.

louisdesjardins

2006-12-16 21:28

developer   ~0013971

I like the idea of 2 or more baseline grids per document. I agree the reference point should not move with the frame (otherwise why call that a grid, actually?).

For the same reason, I am not sure to understand the benefits of a per-frame baseline grid, though. A grid is there to make a consistent layout. So the grid is basically frame independant.

If we're going to have multiple baseline grids, I would take the baseline settings out of the Preference panel and put it right beside the linespacing field in the Paragraph Style palette and in the Properties palette and in the SE.

mkoren

2006-12-17 22:23

reporter   ~0013988

>>> For the same reason, I am not sure to understand the benefits of a per-frame baseline grid, though. A grid is there to make a consistent layout. So the grid is basically frame independant.

A frame grid would let you line up baselines consistently across multiple paragraphs with different styles, and across multiple columns, given the problem with columns not lining up as has been discussed, was my take on it.

avox

2006-12-17 22:34

administrator   ~0013990

> A frame grid would let you line up baselines consistently across multiple
> paragraphs with different styles, and across multiple columns, given the
> problem with columns not lining up as has been discussed, was my take on it.
 
Well, that's one of the next things I'm going to implement, make the first baseline of a frame configurable.

louisdesjardins

2006-12-17 23:46

developer   ~0013991

>>> [mkoren] A frame grid would let you line up baselines consistently across multiple paragraphs with different styles, and across multiple columns, given the problem with columns not lining up as has been discussed, was my take on it.

I still don't understand the difference between a frame grid and a baseline grid as discussed here. What you are describing is exactly what a baseline grid is, and is for. Consistent layout throughout a publication. The actual limitation of the baseline grid is we only have one per document. This, I think, can be improved because it happen in lots of document that we have different levels of texts that we'd like to be sticked to a specific grid. A per frame grid will not solve that issue at all or there is something I don't get!

>>> [avox] Well, that's one of the next things I'm going to implement, make the first baseline of a frame configurable.

Yes. This is a different issue, though, in my understanding. It's a way of establishing where in that frame the text will start, (in relation with that frame).

* * *

If we have grids on a per frame basis, then how can we can call those, "grids"? It could be just anything, all over the place. This does not guarantee consistency from page to page. A document baseline grid will, however, guarantee this.

mkoren

2006-12-18 01:41

reporter   ~0013992

>>> [Avox] Well, that's one of the next things I'm going to implement, make the first baseline of a frame configurable.

Cool. When you do, if one of them is the same as the method used in 1.2 (max. height of any char. in the font, I think), maybe you could make sure the 1.2 importer uses it by default, as I think that was one of the main layout differences going from 1.2->1.3.

>>> [Louis] What you are describing is exactly what a baseline grid is, and is for. Consistent layout throughout a publication.

Well, I think sometimes you might not want to make it consistent with the whole document, but you still want all the text in that frame to be consistent (like with rotated frames). This is just "in between" no grid snap and a document-wide grid, another option. :)

Maybe you'd rather not call it a grid then :), but you could make it displayable and snappable like any normal grid. Anyway, my original point was just that I think that's what the "duplicate" 2930 actually meant, and someone on the mailing list the other day I think wanted the same thing.

louisdesjardins

2006-12-18 02:51

developer   ~0013993

OK. I think I am slowly getting there. :)

We came at it from a different point. After having read the notes of 0002930 I think this frame-grid came up because of the actual limitations of text control of Scribus in text frames. This is mainly why I never set text parameters using the Properties palette and this explains why I am not too keen about this approach. I use Paragraph Styles all the time because of that.

So. This frame grid becomes a welcome addition in that context. But in the event we can gain access to more control, more linespacing options into a text frame without having to go to the Styler, then it will of course be a different issue. To me, a text frame style should not contain text parameters. I might be totally wrong!

Anyhow, I'll have a close look at this when it's ready. I have full confidence Andreas will come up with something really cool. I just don't want we'd work (he'd work!) on a solution because of a problem that will likely be solved by other means in the future, thus making the solution obsolete once we get there.

You are talking about rotated frames and I am not aware of linespacing issues in relation with this feature (didn't dig that to the bottom). All this be good then!

ale

2009-09-30 16:23

manager   ~0022585

since we are at the point, when the new file format is being developed, i'll try to propose a "revolutionary" feature:

drawing baseline frames: wuoldn't be interesting to be able to draw a "baseline frame" on the page which would set the baseline for the area covered by the frame?

not trivial to implement in details, but may be a revolutionary feature :-)

mkoren

2009-10-15 19:42

reporter   ~0022709

Would group-level baseline sets provide some of the same functionality? That way if you had a set of frames you wanted to share baselines you could group them and define the baselines for the group. Would probably be easier to implement. :)

kaixiong

2010-02-14 21:53

reporter   ~0023276

Having the ability to specify multiple baseline grids would ease the creation of multi-language layouts.

I'm currently working on a newspaper publication that has 4 different language sections (English, Chinese, Malay and Tamil.*) and it's quite a bother to have to maintain separate documents and stitch together the respective exported PDFs for printing.

* Malay and Tamil don't really count. Malay uses the same script as English while Tamil text cannot be rendered correctly due to the lack of contextual shaping support.

kaixiong

2010-02-14 21:59

reporter   ~0023277

I forgot to mention that some of the flyers I create can contain text in 4 different languages in a single page, so the multi-document workaround I described above cannot work.

Kunda

2016-04-11 19:52

updater   ~0040092

kaixiong, if you are still there.. we could use your assistance with testing CJK support in Scribus via https://github.com/HOST-Oman/scribus/issues/143
Thanks

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2004-05-03 01:11 Tsoots New Issue
2005-07-21 00:41 christoph_s Note Added: 0005652
2006-02-07 22:07 jo-hannes Relationship added has duplicate 0002930
2006-02-07 22:08 jo-hannes Status new => acknowledged
2006-02-07 22:08 jo-hannes Product Version => 1.3.3cvs
2006-05-24 19:32 christoph_s Relationship added related to 0003865
2006-12-03 21:27 mkoren Note Added: 0013748
2006-12-03 21:35 Tsoots Note Added: 0013749
2006-12-03 21:44 avox Note Added: 0013752
2006-12-03 21:55 Tsoots Note Added: 0013753
2006-12-15 02:55 mkoren Note Added: 0013935
2006-12-16 21:28 louisdesjardins Note Added: 0013971
2006-12-17 22:23 mkoren Note Added: 0013988
2006-12-17 22:34 avox Note Added: 0013990
2006-12-17 23:46 louisdesjardins Note Added: 0013991
2006-12-18 01:41 mkoren Note Added: 0013992
2006-12-18 02:51 louisdesjardins Note Added: 0013993
2008-02-06 17:37 christoph_s Relationship added has duplicate 0004145
2009-09-30 16:23 ale Note Added: 0022585
2009-10-15 19:42 mkoren Note Added: 0022709
2010-02-14 21:53 kaixiong Note Added: 0023276
2010-02-14 21:59 kaixiong Note Added: 0023277
2010-06-29 19:09 christoph_s Relationship added duplicate of 0009218
2015-09-17 20:08 Kunda Category Story Editor / Text Frames => Story Ed/Txt Frames
2015-09-17 20:12 Kunda Category Story Ed/Txt Frames => Story Editor / Text Frames
2016-04-11 19:52 Kunda Note Added: 0040092
2016-04-11 19:53 Kunda Tag Attached: CJK