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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0017506ScribusGeneralpublic2025-05-06 20:31
Reporterale Assigned To 
PrioritynormalSeverityfeatureReproducibilityN/A
Status newResolutionopen 
Product Version1.7.1.svn 
Summary0017506: the line stroke should be shown in pt, not in document unit
Descriptionthe line stroke should be shown in pt, not in document unit

as discussed in the forums:

https://forums.scribus.net/index.php/topic,6057.msg25944.html
TagsNo tags attached.
PatchNo

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cbradney

2025-04-27 20:23

administrator   ~0052480

I can see how someone may have a preference for this, however I would not use it like that, I would want it in document units

ale

2025-04-28 16:07

manager   ~0052483

as written in the forums, all the programs i've checked define the stroke in pt and not in the document's unit.
as far as i know, design guidelines also define it in pt.

in my memories, i also tend to recall always having seen it defined in pt.

imo, we need a strong evidence that the documents unit is the better choice, for doing differently than everybody else...

nitramr

2025-05-05 19:10

developer   ~0052495

In preferences -> Item Tools -> Lines we are using pt as a unit for line width. Only the line width in PP and line style are using the document unit.

As a compromise, we can add a preferred unit in preferences dialog (Item Tools -> Lines).
Options:
- [document] <- default
- pt
- mm
- cm
etc.

ale

2025-05-05 20:54

manager   ~0052497

yes, but why only for the stroke?

what about other measurements that do not use the document's unit?

personally, i'm still waiting for an evidence that it's not correct to just set pt as the unit shown (and used per default) in the stroke.

as an example, can somebody point to a design guideline where the measurement is not in pt?
or to a (serious) layout / design software that does not use pt? (or has a setting for it?)

personally, i'd prefer not to have a setting for this:

- because it would be well hidden and there will be little chances that anybody will then use the setting
- having many of those settings will make the scribus code and the UI more complex for little or no use (really, why not for the font size: i'm sure that from time to time it's hand to define it in mm...).

nitramr

2025-05-06 17:47

developer   ~0052499

I asked Google Gemini to create a detailed research report. It analyzed over 100 websites to gather the following information.

The following table shows an industry standard, primarily influenced by InDesign, Affinity Publisher, and Quark XPress.
The report clearly showed that many units are the same in many countries, but some are still country-specific, which is why a "standard unit" for certain metrics could/should be based on the localization of Scribus.

In general, there is a hierarchy of units: the smaller and finer the objects, such as text or lines, the smaller the units become, in this case points (pt).

Also interesting: in North America, different scales are used for horizontal and vertical rulers. For example, vertical points (pt) and horizontal inches or picas.

Suggestion:
- Scribus should "preset" certain units based on the locale.
- Ruler units should be adjustable independently.

In Japan, Q and Ha are often used in typography, both of which correspond to 1Q or 1Ha = 0.25 mm.

If you want, I can share the research report with you.
unit table.png (47,594 bytes)   
unit table.png (47,594 bytes)   

ale

2025-05-06 20:06

manager   ~0052500

nice summary! thanks.

so, we finally have a rational for using mm in the stroke : - )

personally, i'm not fond of using the locale for setting the unit.
many people use the US locale but do not want to have inches, foots and elbows as units : - )
but having a few named presets is for sure a good idea!

nitramr

2025-05-06 20:31

developer   ~0052501

>> so, we finally have a rational for using mm in the stroke : - )
Yes, according to research, mm is used in Japan. Also in Germany, but mainly for blueprints. The rest of the world uses points.

There are basically three regions:
1. USA: inch + pica/pt
2. Japan: mm + Q/Ha/pt *
3. ROW: mm + pt

*) Q and Ha were invented to subdivide a millimeter and keep all measurements in the metric system. However, pt is also used.
The millimeter measurements in the first five rows of the table are there because of Japan. :)


>> but having a few named presets is for sure a good idea!
Yes, could be the right direction. Perhaps it is time to think about a more advanced preset system of external preset files. I see a need for many configurations, like page sizes, optical margins, measures, shapes (for shape tool).
But this is a different topic.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2025-04-24 12:50 ale New Issue
2025-04-27 20:23 cbradney Note Added: 0052480
2025-04-28 16:07 ale Note Added: 0052483
2025-05-05 19:10 nitramr Note Added: 0052495
2025-05-05 20:54 ale Note Added: 0052497
2025-05-06 17:47 nitramr Note Added: 0052499
2025-05-06 17:47 nitramr File Added: unit table.png
2025-05-06 20:06 ale Note Added: 0052500
2025-05-06 20:31 nitramr Note Added: 0052501