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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0005534ScribusPDFpublic2015-11-27 22:45
ReporterMagnes Assigned To 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
Status confirmedResolutionopen 
PlatformLinuxOSUbuntuOS Version6.10
Product Version1.3.3.9cvs 
Summary0005534: Exported PDF without fonts... larger
DescriptionWhen exporting document to PDF on the "Save to PDF" dialog I removed all fonts from "Fonts to embed" and "Fonts to change to outline" (I use not English Scribus, so the names could be a little different, I atached a screenshot though viewing the setting). The resulting PDF file was larger (13.1MB instead of 13MB) than the one exported with all fonts changed to outline and the PDF in Adobe Reader (linux version) looked like the fonts where missing and where replaced (all) by some strange thin font (second screenshot).
Tags#please_test
Patch

Relationships

child of 0002438 acknowledged Metabug: Cases of extreme memory use 

Activities

2007-04-06 08:13

 

screenshots.zip (61,139 bytes)

mhanski

2007-04-06 13:21

developer   ~0015754

Last edited: 2007-04-06 16:01

1. Which scribus version?

2. You can easily look up the original menu item names, just switch the Scribus GUI to English (Plik/Konfiguracja/Ogolne/Jezyk:Angielski)

3. Your 2nd screen shot just shows what happens if Scribus can't find fonts used in a Scribus document -- they _are_ missing, because you've neither embedded nor outlined them. What's wrong about this behaviour?

Magnes

2007-04-06 15:04

reporter   ~0015758

Last edited: 2007-04-06 15:41

Ad. 1. Version 1.3.3.8 (I forgot to select).
Ad. 2. OK. "Save to PDF" is "Save as PDF", "Fonts to change to outline" is "Font to outline".
Ad. 3. Yes. The screen is from Adobe Reader opening file generated with none fonts embeded and none outlined. What's wrong is that the file size of the PDF WITHOUT the fonts is the same (13MB) as the filesize of the PDF WITH the fonts outlined (so the fonts are missing but something takes the space).
File size with the fonts: 13,597,127 (smaller??)
File size without the fonts: 13,623,345

Also if I generate PDF without the fonts outlined or embeded shouldn't the Adobe Reader use installed fonts (when they are available?)?

mhanski

2007-04-06 15:53

developer   ~0015760

<quoting>Also if I generate PDF without the fonts outlined or embeded should the Adobe Reader use installed fonts (when they are available?)?</quoting>

Wrong expectations, it shouldn't, and it won't work this way. If you neither embed nor outline your fonts, Adobe Reader will use one of its own fonts. It can only work, if you use in your document and neither embed nor outline fonts which are delivered with Acroread anyway, like Myriad Pro or Minion Pro: http://wiki.scribus.net/index.php/Darmowe_polskie_fonty_przeznaczone_do_druku#Minion_Pro

btw, this is better discussed on the mailing list http://nashi.altmuehlnet.de/mailman/listinfo/scribus , but if you manage to make the source files of your magazine (tarred or zipped "Collect for output") available to us, I will test it and try to confirm the issue with "too large file size"

Magnes

2007-04-06 18:46

reporter   ~0015763

OK, I understand the issue with Adobe Reader. So this bug is not important as I suppose.

<quoting>if you manage to make the source files of your magazine (tarred or zipped "Collect for output") available to us, I will test it and try to confirm the issue with "too large file size"</quoting>

I attached older document (without graphics) with the same strange problem here: http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=4453 (I suppose it's easy to reproduce - just generate one pdf with all fonts outlined and second with none outlined and none embeded fonts).

Also I can't embed most of the fonts in that document (Georgia for example), don't know if it's the issue described here: http://bugs.scribus.net/view.php?id=5441 (that fonts can't be embeded also in the 1.3.4 CVS version, where the glyph number limit is set to 2048, maybe it's still to small for them? or they can't be embeded for another reason?).

mhanski

2007-04-06 22:05

developer   ~0015767

Last edited: 2007-04-06 22:28

I'm sorry, I'm not able to confirm it, because I can't even load the document attached to 0004453 -- my whole system had almost frozen for about 0.5 h, then I had to stop it.

cbradney

2007-04-06 22:16

administrator   ~0015769

All of those characters need describing as vectors if you outline.. it might not be too surprising if the pdfs are similar sizes.

mhanski

2007-04-06 22:26

developer   ~0015770

<quoting>All of those characters need describing as vectors if you outline.. it might not be too surprising if the pdfs are similar sizes.</quoting>

He did neither embed nor outline.

avox

2007-04-06 22:50

administrator   ~0015771

<quoting>Also if I generate PDF without the fonts outlined or embeded should the Adobe Reader use installed fonts (when they are available?)?</quoting>

Yes, but you have to switch on "Use Local Fonts" in Acrobat Reader.

Magnes

2007-04-07 06:29

reporter   ~0015777

Last edited: 2007-04-07 09:47

The document takes aprox. 800MB of the memory, so you'll need to have at least 1GB of RAM to open it (swap will do). In 1.3.3.8 it's much faster (in 1.3.4CVS it could take minutes to open).

PS. I have "Use local fonts" turned on, but doesn't look like it's working. The document looks the same (Adobe Reader 7.0 for linux).
PS.2. I tested it on a new document and couldn't reproduce - the size of the file without fonts was smaller as it should.

Magnes

2007-04-07 06:48

reporter   ~0015778

Last edited: 2007-04-07 06:54

OK. I got it. To reproduce on new document (tested in 1.3.3.8):
1. Create new document.
2. Insert sample text in text frame (I tested on Bram Stoker Dracula).
3. Change the font of the text to Georgia Regular.
4. From menu: Page/Copy... and make 60 copies of the first page at the end of the document.
5. Export to pdf twice:
a) first with "Outline all" (you'll notice that Georgia Regular can't be embeded for some reason)
b) second time select Georgia Regular in "Save as PDF" dialog and try to send it to "Fonts to embed", it will disappear and there will be no fonts to embed and no fonts to outline

Compare the pdf sizes. Open them in Adobe Reader - you'll see that the second PDF doesn't have the Georgia font embeded nor outlined (it's missing) but the size of the file is larger than the first one (with the font outlined).

PS. After closing the document (but not Scribus) the memory used by the program (according to gnome-system-monitor) is not decreasing. So there could be some memory leak.

2007-04-07 09:27

 

use_local_fonts.pdf (68,116 bytes)

2007-04-07 09:28

 

use_local_fonts.sla (49,442 bytes)

mhanski

2007-04-07 09:42

developer   ~0015779

<magnes>Also if I generate PDF without the fonts outlined or embeded should the Adobe Reader use installed fonts (when they are available?)?</magnes>

<avox>Yes, but you have to switch on "Use Local Fonts" in Acrobat Reader.</avox>

@Andreas: I know it's described this way in http://docs.scribus.net/index.php?lang=en&page=toolbox1 and I hate to disagree, but the menu item "Document/Use Local Fonts" seems to refer to fonts which are delivered with Adobe Reader (e.g. Minion Pro) and not to system wide fonts. I've uploaded two sample files (pdf and sla) to demonstrate how it works, the sla file contains 4 text frames: 2 of them use system wide fonts and the other 2 Acroread fonts (minion + myriad), none of them was embedded or outlined while exporting to pdf. Please open the resulting pdf in acroread and switch "Use Local Fonts" to see what happens.

mhanski

2007-04-07 09:58

developer   ~0015780

@Magnes: Confirming the issue with "too large file size", exactly as described in your last note, something eats the space away:

maciej@pan:~/tmp$ ls -l w*outlin*pdf
//PDF with outlined fonts:
-rw-r--r-- 1 maciej maciej 239601 2007-04-07 11:51 with_outlined_fonts.pdf
//The same PDF without outlined or embedded fonts:
-rw-r--r-- 1 maciej maciej 249157 2007-04-07 11:51 wo_outlined_fonts.pdf

the issue with Georgia has been already solved by fschmid in 0005441 and works fine in 1.3.3.9cvs, be patient:)

2007-04-07 10:04

 

wo_outlined_fonts.sla.gz (13,353 bytes)

Magnes

2007-04-07 11:51

reporter   ~0015782

<quoting>the issue with Georgia has been already solved by fschmid in 0005441 and works fine in 1.3.3.9cvs, be patient:)</quoting>

I know about the resolved 0005441. I didn't test the 1.3.3.9CVS, but in 1.3.4CVS from this month (with 2048 glyph limit - I searched it in the source code to be sure) it still exists - I can't embed for example: Georgia Regular or Times New Roman Regular.

mhanski

2007-04-07 12:08

developer   ~0015788

magnes, I've reopened 0005441 -- please add any additional remarks about the "embedding Georgia" issue there.

ringerc

2007-04-26 19:38

reporter   ~0016033

"PS. After closing the document (but not Scribus) the memory used by the program (according to gnome-system-monitor) is not decreasing. So there could be some memory leak."

Nope, that's not how it works. On most platforms, and with the C/C++ runtime, a program cannot generally release memory back to the operating system. The program will never shrink in apparent memory use, however it will reuse the same memory over and over (with certain limits to do with memory fragmentation). There are exceptions to this where programs were extremely carefully written to do their own memory management in great detail - but this is rare, complex, and usually only found in long-running server processes.

What'll happen is that the OS will reclaim the memory by swapping out unused chunks of the program's RAM to disk, freeing physical memory for other programs. This is clumsy but effective.

That doesn't mean that there aren't any memory leaks, of course, but what you described doesn't particularly suggest one. Now, if you found that opening the document again caused the program to grow even more, THEN you might have found a problem.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2007-04-06 08:13 Magnes New Issue
2007-04-06 08:13 Magnes File Added: screenshots.zip
2007-04-06 13:21 mhanski Note Added: 0015754
2007-04-06 13:21 mhanski Status new => feedback
2007-04-06 15:04 Magnes Note Added: 0015758
2007-04-06 15:41 Magnes Note Edited: 0015758
2007-04-06 15:53 mhanski Note Added: 0015760
2007-04-06 16:01 mhanski Note Edited: 0015754
2007-04-06 18:46 Magnes Note Added: 0015763
2007-04-06 22:05 mhanski Note Added: 0015767
2007-04-06 22:07 mhanski Relationship added parent of 0002438
2007-04-06 22:15 mhanski Relationship deleted parent of 0002438
2007-04-06 22:16 mhanski Relationship added related to 0002438
2007-04-06 22:16 cbradney Note Added: 0015769
2007-04-06 22:26 mhanski Note Added: 0015770
2007-04-06 22:28 mhanski Note Edited: 0015767
2007-04-06 22:50 avox Note Added: 0015771
2007-04-07 06:29 Magnes Note Added: 0015777
2007-04-07 06:36 Magnes Note Edited: 0015777
2007-04-07 06:37 Magnes Note Edited: 0015777
2007-04-07 06:37 Magnes Note Edited: 0015777
2007-04-07 06:48 Magnes Note Added: 0015778
2007-04-07 06:54 Magnes Note Edited: 0015778
2007-04-07 09:27 mhanski File Added: use_local_fonts.pdf
2007-04-07 09:28 mhanski File Added: use_local_fonts.sla
2007-04-07 09:42 mhanski Note Added: 0015779
2007-04-07 09:47 Magnes Note Edited: 0015777
2007-04-07 09:58 mhanski Note Added: 0015780
2007-04-07 09:58 mhanski Status feedback => confirmed
2007-04-07 09:58 mhanski Product Version => 1.3.3.9cvs
2007-04-07 10:04 mhanski File Added: wo_outlined_fonts.sla.gz
2007-04-07 11:51 Magnes Note Added: 0015782
2007-04-07 12:08 mhanski Note Added: 0015788
2007-04-26 19:38 ringerc Note Added: 0016033
2014-09-13 13:40 Kunda Relationship replaced child of 0002438
2015-11-27 22:45 Kunda Tag Attached: #please_test