View Issue Details

IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0012776ScribusImport / Exportpublic2016-12-08 22:04
Reporterchristoph_s Assigned To 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
Status newResolutionopen 
Platformx86_64OSOpenSUSE 64 BitOS Version13.1
Product Version1.5.0svn 
Target Version1.5.4Fixed in Version 
Summary0012776: Opening vector and DTP files should trigger a dialog as to which colour profile should be used
DescriptionAs in the summary. Most professionals are used to the so-called "Working Space", i.e., using a particular colour profile or none at at all.

We need not replicate this 100%, as we always require an ICC Profile, but Scribus should at least check for a profile and let the user decide:

1) "No profile" (i.e. sRGB as a fallback option);

2) Embedded or linked profile;

3) An option to select another profile.

The respective selection must become the default Document Setting.

TagsNo tags attached.
Patch

Relationships

related to 0012598 new [Proposal] Temporary (stackable) hint bubbles instead of unpopular popup dialogs 

Activities

christoph_s

2014-10-17 05:45

administrator  

Workingspace.png (6,709 bytes)
Workingspace.png (6,709 bytes)

christoph_s

2014-10-17 05:48

administrator   ~0034029

Additional info: Not all import formats of Scribus support ICC profiles.

ale

2014-10-17 11:19

manager   ~0034030

1/ of course, only trigger the dialog if color management is enabled...

2/ not sure if i want to see a blocking dialog each time i load a (vector) file... imo, we really need a new way of communicating with the user...

christoph_s

2014-10-17 23:32

administrator   ~0034056

Last edited: 2014-10-21 06:46

View 2 revisions

As to 1: Look at the dialog again. Option 1 would disable CM, 2 and 3 enable it. That makes sense and is much more transparent than what we currently do. It is thus 2). Also this would only be needed for vector and DTP files that actually support CM (AI, XAR, CDR, SVG, to name the vector formats).

ale

2014-10-20 09:26

manager   ~0034067

most people have no use for color profiles (and do not know what it's all about) and should not be bothered with it.

it's a good idea to remind the knowledgeable ones about the need to care about CM details, but it should not push the other ones to make uninformed decisions producing a worse result than what they would got by simply ignoring it...
(i mean, have you ever seen a CMYK jpg?).

so, imo, people who have not setup (or are not using) CM in scribus should not be asked what they want to do with it when opening a file.
scribus should just do its best to produce a good result, without asking. because there are good chances that the answer is the wrong one.

christoph_s

2014-10-21 06:36

administrator   ~0034081

Last edited: 2014-10-21 06:45

View 2 revisions

ale, I can't believe that, after all those years you have been involved with Scribus, you still don't understand the importance of colour management. It's one of the pillars of Scribus's success, and you should be ashamed for making such a display of wilful ignorance!

ale

2014-10-21 12:11

manager   ~0034083

christoph, please read what i have written.

twice.

i never say that CM is not important.

i say that wrong and uninformed choices in CM are mostly worse than no choice.

CM is crucial, if you want a result that is as close as possible to the designer's will.

but the reality is, that most scribus users don't know what CM is. when asked about it, they will try to click on the better sounding name (probably, one with adobe in it: if it is done by adobe, for sure it will give you good vibrant colors!) rather than leaving the thing as is.

if you ask them what they want to do, you should also tell them what CM is, how to set it up and what are the correct choices for their workflow... and make sure that they understand all of it, before clicking on ok.

is a warning popping up when you're opening a file the right moment? i doubt.


so all i can do is reiterate my warning: don't ask the user to pick a color profile, if he has not setup a color managed workflow.

color management is hard, and afaict there is mostly no use in setting up CM just pro forma. do it right or don't do it.


on the other hand, if the user knows what she is doing and has CM configured / enabled, this dialog might be helpful...
i'm not CM wizard myself (i just know enough to know that i know nothing, as the wise man says) and i'll let other people give their opinion on the details...


finally, of course, scribus should help people learn about, understand, setup and use color management... but we have to make sure that most of them have correctly setup their workflow, before forcing them to make a decision on CM...


all of this, except if -- as you write -- i have learned nothing about CM all over the years...
but, if this is the case, you'd probably better tell me where i'm not correct and not shame me in front of all the people...

cbradney

2014-10-21 18:27

administrator   ~0034084

I agree with Ale.. however, a program cannot really teach someone about CM.. people need to read to learn about it. I have visions of a nice help bubble dialog with context sensitivity etc like the help window but with training and info.. but thats for another time.

I'd go with Ale and say, if CM is enabled, then we might pop up this dialog.

christoph_s

2014-10-22 04:35

administrator  

ID_WS.png (26,126 bytes)
ID_WS.png (26,126 bytes)

christoph_s

2014-10-22 05:34

administrator   ~0034121

Last edited: 2014-10-22 05:59

View 2 revisions

Alessandro, let's be realistic here. If a SLA file has been edited with CM enabled, this is being stored in the SLA file itself. If one tries to open such a file on another system that doesn't provide the profile, Scribus already triggers a warning.

Other formats, like AI, IDML etc., usually have ICC profiles embedded or referenced to ("linked" in Adobe-speak; see the newly uploaded second screenshot from InDesign). What they don't provide is Scribus document settings. Thus, it would be reasonable to let users who open a file with an embedded/linked profile choose a colour profile and also enable CM. Remember that we are talking about *opening* files, i.e., files that, once edited and saved, will be SLA files. Thus, we should give formats that support CM the same treatment as native Scribus files. Inserting vector/DTP files into an existing Scribus document is entirely different and needs further discussion.

Of course we should also allow users to ignore profiles, but it must be clear that they'd do so at their own peril, that the colours they see on their screen aren't what the creator intended, and that significant colour shifts may occur at a commercial printing company.

"if you ask them what they want to do, you should also tell them what CM is, how to set it up and what are the correct choices for their workflow." You hopefully do know that our Help System provides a chapter on CM. CM is not easy to grasp and, as Craig wrote, you have to read and learn about it. But guess what? There are gratis resources in many languages available (e.g.: http://www.fogra.org/fogra-forschung/medienvorstufe/forschungsthemen-medienvorstufe/10047-softproof/downloads/downloads-softproof.html).

Unlike you, I have trained users from SMEs to big corporations and large international organisations. Please believe me that colour correctness was always an issue, especially for former MS Publisher users. Thanks to Scribus and its use of lcms, I was able to show them how to successfully get their creations to a printer.

And unlike you (apologies for the quip), I managed to becoming invited to an important conference in your neighbourhood. And the attendence allowed me to discuss CM issues with representatives of EIZO, as well as other CM professionals.

ale

2014-10-22 09:27

manager   ~0034122

Amen

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2014-10-17 05:45 christoph_s New Issue
2014-10-17 05:45 christoph_s File Added: Workingspace.png
2014-10-17 05:48 christoph_s Note Added: 0034029
2014-10-17 11:19 ale Note Added: 0034030
2014-10-17 23:32 christoph_s Note Added: 0034056
2014-10-20 09:26 ale Note Added: 0034067
2014-10-20 12:50 Kunda Relationship added related to 0012598
2014-10-21 06:36 christoph_s Note Added: 0034081
2014-10-21 06:45 christoph_s Note Edited: 0034081 View Revisions
2014-10-21 06:46 christoph_s Note Edited: 0034056 View Revisions
2014-10-21 12:11 ale Note Added: 0034083
2014-10-21 18:27 cbradney Note Added: 0034084
2014-10-22 04:35 christoph_s File Added: ID_WS.png
2014-10-22 05:34 christoph_s Note Added: 0034121
2014-10-22 05:59 christoph_s Note Edited: 0034121 View Revisions
2014-10-22 09:27 ale Note Added: 0034122
2016-01-23 17:16 cbradney Target Version 1.5.1 => 1.5.3
2016-12-08 22:04 Kunda Target Version 1.5.3 => 1.5.4