View Issue Details

IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0013709ScribusUser Interfacepublic2016-12-08 21:25
Reporterchristoph_s Assigned Tocbradney  
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityN/A
Status assignedResolutionopen 
Product Version1.5.1svn 
Target Version1.6 milestoneFixed in Version 
Summary0013709: Replace all UI and tooltip occurences of "Weld" with "Couple"
DescriptionAs per an IRC discussion last November, I think we agreed to replace the unclear "weld" with the more succinct "couple".
TagsNo tags attached.
PatchNo

Activities

Kunda

2016-02-05 17:54

manager   ~0038554

Then we need to rename mantisbt tickets that refer to the Welding as well as listed in 0012496

christoph_s

2016-02-06 09:36

administrator   ~0038555

Why?

Kunda

2016-02-08 17:05

manager   ~0038562

Christoph, ...because we're planning on changing the word 'Weld' to 'Couple' and those tickets don't reflect the change in terminology?
It would help limit confusion for anyone wanting to file 'Couple' tickets that already exist under the obsolete 'Weld', right?

christoph_s

2016-02-09 09:27

administrator   ~0038580

Relations would remain the same, wouldn't they?

ale

2016-02-09 10:59

manager   ~0038581

Last edited: 2016-02-09 11:00

View 2 revisions

libreoffice (and probably all offices) are using "anchor" for something very similar...

if we don't see a risk to get a confusion with the "real" anchoring that might in the future be implemented in scribus, i would prefer "weld" to be replaced by "anchor".

(imo "weld" is really bad... but "couple" is not better enough to justify a urgent change. so, if you don't like "anchor" i'd prefer to keep the status quo until somebody brings THE right solution.
i had a look at the synonyms for "weld" (http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/weld), the best one seems to be "link"... but we can't use it here because it will conflict with the http links one can define.
another interesting synonyms list is the one for pin: http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/pin

and yes (to cezary's excuse), weld is theoretically a good term for the feature... but it sounds so weird...)

(and, yes2, the change has to happen before 1.6!)

cbradney

2016-02-09 12:19

administrator   ~0038582

Agree, couple is not the best. Anchor is ok for me. I don't think we've used connect elsewhere.

Kunda

2016-02-09 12:50

manager   ~0038583

+1 for "anchor" especially if it is uniform with other FOSS models

christoph_s

2016-02-10 07:03

administrator   ~0038608

ale, where does LO use "Anchor" for "something very similar"?

In LO, "Anchor" is being used to determine the position of an item on the page. Items can be anchored to a page, a paragraph, a character, or be anchored as a character in a text.

That's not "very similar" to but completely different from the feature currently called "Weld". "Weld" allows for combining two or more items without grouping them, so they can be edited separately by selecting them.

If the "Weld" feature was working properly, it might be possible to use it as something resembling the "Anchor" feature, but it doesn't and probably shouldn't. The best we can hope for is that changing the weld point changes the base point of the "coupled" (ahem) items.

A real "Anchor" feature would be a text frame feature (Insert > Anchor), whereas "Welding" is rightfully located in the "Item" menu. Actually, it's already there, albeit not really working at the moment: Insert > Mark > Anchor Mark.

The obvious alternative would be "combine", but unfortunately this term is already in use for vector effects, both in Inkscape and Scribus (as well as other vector programmes). Hence my suggestion to use "couple", because that's what "Welding" actually does -- coupling two or more items without grouping them. They'll only move together.

Kunda

2016-03-11 13:58

manager   ~0039128

What's the verdict ?

christoph_s

2016-03-15 07:36

administrator   ~0039169

My verdict stands. I challenge everyone else to come up with something better that really reflects the current feature.

ale

2016-03-15 10:49

manager   ~0039171

welding is anchoring an item to another item.

but one can i do against a verdict?

christoph_s

2016-03-16 07:54

administrator   ~0039211

ale,

>>welding is anchoring an item to another item.

That's just unproductive sophistry.

And, no, it is not. If you anchor a boat or a ship, you attach it to the bottom of the sea or a lake, i.e., a bigger and probably static unit, but you can't anchor the bottom of the sea/lake to the boat.

Anchoring requires an unequal relationship between two items, whereas the current "Weld" feature treats both items as equal.

You also didn't reply to any of my arguments. Instead, you're playing the victimisation game: "but one can i do against a verdict?" Who asked for a verdict? Hint: It wasn't me!

ale

2016-03-16 15:51

manager   ~0039214

concerning your question: you know where LO uses anchors in a similar context.
you're explaining it above.
(spoiler: for linking the position of an item relatively to an anchor defined in a different item.)

i'm sure that most people will understand it correctly.

sorry, for the irony.

christoph_s

2016-03-17 06:40

administrator   ~0039218

First of all, neither pages, nor paragraphs, nor characters are items.

Second, the current "Weld" feature doesn't "link[] the position of an item relatively to an anchor defined in a different item." It combines two items without grouping them. There is no "in" and no "anchor" as it currently stands.

A fundamental property of an anchored item is that it can't be moved freely. Its movements depend on the movement of the anchor itself (page, paragraph, character). With the current "Weld" feature, both items can be moved, and the other item will follow. Again, totally different.

Maybe your interpretation was Cezary's original idea, but it's just not there.

ale

2016-03-17 08:03

manager   ~0039219

the idea of welding *is* that one items follows the other in an "intelligent" way.

in some cases they will be anchored to each other indeed. but in most cases not.

what you are describing is basically grouping.

christoph_s

2016-03-17 08:25

administrator   ~0039220

Last edited: 2016-03-17 08:29

View 4 revisions

>>the idea of welding *is* that one items follows the other in an "intelligent" way.

What's the reality, as opposed to the idea?

>>in some cases they will be anchored to each other indeed. but in most cases not.

Please clarify. Especially "most cases". Please list those cases and how it actually works.

>>what you are describing is basically grouping.

No, it is not.

christoph_s

2016-03-17 08:33

administrator   ~0039221

ale,

you also ignored my argument that there is a separate feature called "Anchor Mark".

How do you reconcile this with your choice of wording?

ale

2016-03-17 15:37

manager   ~0039223

christoph, you're tiresome.

you're just trying very hard to find arguments where none are needed.

i prefer anchor, i don't feel the need to defend that preference, i don't like couple and, if no agreement is found, i would prefer if scribus would stick to weld until the right name is found.
this is what i wrote in my the first comment.
i don't have much more to say.

you don't like anchor? fine to me.

your mind is made up and i don't have the feeling that discussing the topic with you, will lead to anything useful.

christoph_s

2016-03-18 07:46

administrator   ~0039226

I'm not married to "couple", but "anchor" seems to be absolutely wrong and misleading to me. If we insist on using maritime metaphors, what about "tow"?

Kunda

2016-04-15 04:15

manager   ~0040196

will this make it in to 1.5.2 or do we bump to 1.5.3 ?

christoph_s

2016-04-15 06:49

administrator   ~0040198

That's not a feature question. It can be changed within a few minutes. The real problem is that we need something better than "weld" (which is wrong because of the connotations). "Anchor" is even wronger (because of the connotations and its equivalents in other programmes).

So, if we could have an IRC discussion and a subsequent Team vote, the issue could be settled quickly.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2016-02-05 08:21 christoph_s New Issue
2016-02-05 08:21 christoph_s Status new => assigned
2016-02-05 08:21 christoph_s Assigned To => cbradney
2016-02-05 17:54 Kunda Note Added: 0038554
2016-02-06 09:36 christoph_s Note Added: 0038555
2016-02-08 17:05 Kunda Note Added: 0038562
2016-02-09 09:27 christoph_s Note Added: 0038580
2016-02-09 10:59 ale Note Added: 0038581
2016-02-09 11:00 ale Note Edited: 0038581 View Revisions
2016-02-09 12:19 cbradney Note Added: 0038582
2016-02-09 12:50 Kunda Note Added: 0038583
2016-02-10 07:03 christoph_s Note Added: 0038608
2016-03-11 13:58 Kunda Note Added: 0039128
2016-03-15 07:36 christoph_s Note Added: 0039169
2016-03-15 10:49 ale Note Added: 0039171
2016-03-16 07:54 christoph_s Note Added: 0039211
2016-03-16 15:51 ale Note Added: 0039214
2016-03-17 06:40 christoph_s Note Added: 0039218
2016-03-17 08:03 ale Note Added: 0039219
2016-03-17 08:25 christoph_s Note Added: 0039220
2016-03-17 08:27 christoph_s Note Edited: 0039220 View Revisions
2016-03-17 08:27 christoph_s Note Edited: 0039220 View Revisions
2016-03-17 08:29 christoph_s Note Edited: 0039220 View Revisions
2016-03-17 08:33 christoph_s Note Added: 0039221
2016-03-17 15:37 ale Note Added: 0039223
2016-03-18 07:46 christoph_s Note Added: 0039226
2016-04-15 04:15 Kunda Note Added: 0040196
2016-04-15 06:49 christoph_s Note Added: 0040198
2016-05-01 14:24 cbradney Target Version 1.5.2 => 1.5.3
2016-12-08 21:25 Kunda Target Version 1.5.3 => 1.6 milestone