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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0008624ScribusProperties Palettepublic2019-11-07 17:17
Reportersimanek Assigned Tojghali  
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityN/A
Status assignedResolutionopen 
Product Version 
Target Version1.5.4Fixed in Version 
Summary0008624: [OBSOLETE] Properties Palette/All Palette Window/Panel Management Improvement (mockup incl.)
DescriptionI realize that this is subjective, but I am speaking from my experience as a professional graphic designer that has worked on magazines, newspapers, catalogs and other smaller layout projects for over 10 years using Freehand, Illustrator, QuarkXpress, Pagemaker, InDesign, Photoshop, GIMP, Inkscape and Scribus (I use the open source apps on my freelance projects). The 'accordian' interface of the current Properties Palette is very inefficient and frustrating to use. All of the sub-palettes included are palettes that I like to view simultaneously as I address various aspects of my layout elements. It would be nice to have the option to separate all of the palettes that make up the current Properties palette into separate windows/panels. The Gimp, as much as (what I can only guess are amateur) users like to complain about its interface, has a much more customizable (and I think pro-user focused) approach to palettes: separate windows/panels or combine two or more into one window with tabbed selection. I think the 'accordian' interface is unusual and, though clever, awkward and inefficient. Every time I want to adjust something I have to scan the accordian stack (unless the one I need happens to be open) and carefully move my mouse to click on the right palette title, even when I only want view a certain property. This isn't that difficult, but the accordian interface is particularly bad because each palette's title can potentially be in two different places depending on which palette is initially 'open' (above or below the active panel). A much better solution would be to have a static stack of buttons representing each palette, displaying the active palette to the side of the button stack. In this way a user could develop muscle memory to match the consistent location of each palette's activation button. A row of tabs across the top of the active palette panel would be a variation of that scheme. Please consider these suggestions or at least execute a serious review of how palettes are managed in Scribus. The properties palette is a dark spot on an otherwise very promising, stable and professional quality application.
Tagsindigodock, palette
PatchNo

Activities

t8xt

2009-12-10 06:38

reporter   ~0022933

What if pallets can dock into tabs underneath the toolbar buttons and expand when you click them?

simanek

2009-12-10 13:28

reporter   ~0022935

I think another user posted a request to mimic one of the late versions of InDesign (was that you?). That's a fine suggestion as well. We're still using InDesign CS at work, but I think the new interface is similar to what Inkscape has for collapsible palettes, though I think their 'collapsed' tabs would be better to set text horizontal as InDesign appears to do. But Inkscape also allows you to set the palettes as separate sub-windows as well. But I hesitate to make the mimicry of an existing commercial application the basis of my request. That's a great way to start a flame war. I simply want to convince the Scribus team that however the palettes are to be displayed, the current properties palette is not a good option. It looks like an interface very well suited to whoever designed it, but not well suited to a large population of professional graphic designers and typesetters. Not that Adobe, Aldus, Macromedia, Quark, Gimp or Inkscape have always been right, but I find it difficult to understand why an application interface (especially a relatively new one) would break with interface schemes that appear to have served users very well for twenty years or more. [Note:'palette' and 'pallet' are two different things, though they do have something in common. I am quite sure that 'palette' is correct in this case since layout/graphic design is an art and related to painting.]

cbradney

2009-12-10 19:40

administrator   ~0022936

Hi

I realise you have put a lot of effort into writing this bug up, however I am going to close it. We realise that the PP could be better, but it is not in our schedule to rebuild it yet. This is a duplicate bug of a number of others and unless we se some really convincing design we are not going to change just for the sake of changing. We plan to have a tear-off and dockable system, as much as this would be possible.

I will leave this open in case you have another comments but will have to close it in a day or so.

Craig

t8xt

2009-12-10 21:36

reporter   ~0022937

Last edited: 2009-12-10 21:41

Would it be possible to make the text on the buttons Shape, Group, Text, Image, Line, etc a different color or bold so they stand out a bit more from the other buttons? And have the diagonal double arrows appear on the mouse pointer to let users now they can re-size the pallet box on Windows when they hold the mouse pointer over the edge of the pallet box? I though this was a bug until I accidentally click and dragged on the edge of the pallet and caused it to resize.

cbradney

2009-12-11 17:16

administrator   ~0022942

The resize thing is an issue on Windows.. it appears on Linux and OSX. Seems to be a Qt issue.

ale

2009-12-15 18:58

manager   ~0022964

craig, i thought that there was a solution which was better than the current one and easy to implement...

* using tabs instead of the accordion (there is a patch from pierre implementing this)
* using icons instead of text for the tabs labels (there are drafts for it somewhere)
* using only one content aware tab for the content properties (instead having group, text, and image: only one of which can be active at one time).

can we vote if this is a convincing enough design?

(it's certainly nothing revolutionary, not a brilliant solution... but imho simnple enough to be implemented)

simanek

2009-12-16 03:59

reporter   ~0022966

Would the tabs, with the icons replacing the text, still have a title that would show on :hover? Or maybe, similar to Gimp, show text next to the icon on the active tab? Otherwise, the features that you described sound like a good enough improvement for now.

t8xt

2009-12-16 05:06

reporter   ~0022967

Last edited: 2009-12-16 05:15

Hello,

Here's a couple of screen shots attached to this post of the properties panel. I made this in Gimp and QT Designer so nothing is exact. The button to the left of the properties panel will collapse or expand it, the panels are tear off removable. In theroy the pallet panels can be docked to either right or left sides, the tool bar on the left can be moved to its default place on the top, I'm not sure about having the left and right docking do you think it would become to cramped? Screens are getting wider these days and probably soon more designers will have them so having panels docked on the left and right may not be an issue so much in the future. The properties panel still has its accordion feature but now the contents in each section has a scroll bar so the contents of the smaller sub panel have been placed into one big panel. The most commonly used features of each panels are located at the top, please see the Typography panel. There is now the ability to style the text in the Typography panel and save this new style by clicking the +plus button next to the style drop down selectors. Let me know any thoughts about these changes.

Thanks
Warren

P.S. Maybe double clicking a section like for example Frame Spacing inside of a panel will collapse it, double click again to expand it or right clicking inside a panel and selecting Expand All would work to cut down on the scrolling in the panels.

2009-12-16 05:08

 

2009-12-16 05:08

 

simanek

2010-01-05 06:35

reporter   ~0023034

I guess I'll look into the nuts and bolts of marking up palette presentation in KDE. That might take some time to learn though. Meanwhile, I have attached a mockup (Scribus_Palettes_Text.png) of a more condensed arrangement of most of the text properties. Another aspect of Scribus's palette problem is the amount of empty chrome that makes these palettes much larger than they need to be. Hopefully this isn't an inherent characteristic of KDE's window layout capabilities. Whatever it is, my attached rendition is at least twice as efficient as the existing layout for text properties. I have also created a few new icons in the same style as the existing text icons to eliminate the need of text descriptions.

2010-01-05 06:35

 

Scribus_Palettes_Text.png (26,263 bytes)
Scribus_Palettes_Text.png (26,263 bytes)

Mike

2010-04-26 20:57

reporter   ~0023832

I was playing with Qt Designer and create new layout of Properties Window. I didn't want to create new bug, so I wrote that here. I know that this won't be implement but I upload that because it (possibly) contains some ideas for developers.

Mike

2010-04-26 20:57

reporter  

Properties.ui (111,595 bytes)

cbradney

2010-04-26 21:18

administrator   ~0023833

Mike, things can be implemented.. assuming, with things like the PP, that it is seen as a decent step forward.... we just don't have the coding time to do this major work right now, so if others like yourself can present something, then we would encourage it!

Mike

2010-04-26 22:09

reporter   ~0023836

Ok, understand. If you need resolve some specific UI problem, you could write to me. I create some testing layouts (but direct implementation into code is too difficult for me).

mdcurtis

2010-07-29 01:50

reporter   ~0024403

As a new Scribus user, on a laptop with a 13" widescreen (ie, about 700px height), I also find the current properties interface somewhat limiting (I know this is not a professional DTP environment...). So I would like add a vote to this ticket. Also, I have a fair amount of experience with Qt (and may even have some time), so if the development team is interested, I could help contribute to a new interface.

ale

2010-07-29 08:46

manager   ~0024406

hi mdcurtis, can you please mail me at ale.comp_06@xox.ch? you're help may be very welcome...

ale

2010-07-29 08:49

manager   ~0024407

mike: you, too?

Mike

2010-07-29 16:11

reporter   ~0024408

me too :-)

I am quite busy right now but I try to contribute to this subject

Kunda

2016-01-19 16:41

manager  

XYZ-Tab.png (55,050 bytes)
XYZ-Tab.png (55,050 bytes)

Kunda

2016-01-19 16:41

manager  

Shape-Tab.png (58,860 bytes)
Shape-Tab.png (58,860 bytes)

Kunda

2016-01-19 16:41

manager  

Line-Tab.png (60,459 bytes)
Line-Tab.png (60,459 bytes)

Kunda

2016-01-19 16:41

manager  

Text-Tab.png (69,748 bytes)
Text-Tab.png (69,748 bytes)

Kunda

2016-01-19 16:41

manager  

Image-Tab.png (45,266 bytes)
Image-Tab.png (45,266 bytes)

Kunda

2016-01-19 16:42

manager   ~0038284

Uploaded screenshots of proposed mockups for convenience
(Thanks to Mike for providing .ui file)

Kunda

2016-01-19 16:42

manager   ~0038285

See https://github.com/nitramr/indigoDock

ale

2019-11-07 17:17

manager   ~0047018

i think that we can close this ticket as it is superseded by the indigo ui project.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2009-12-10 02:11 simanek New Issue
2009-12-10 06:38 t8xt Note Added: 0022933
2009-12-10 13:28 simanek Note Added: 0022935
2009-12-10 19:40 cbradney Note Added: 0022936
2009-12-10 21:36 t8xt Note Added: 0022937
2009-12-10 21:41 t8xt Note Edited: 0022937
2009-12-10 23:52 jghali Severity major => minor
2009-12-11 17:16 cbradney Note Added: 0022942
2009-12-15 18:58 ale Note Added: 0022964
2009-12-16 03:59 simanek Note Added: 0022966
2009-12-16 05:06 t8xt Note Added: 0022967
2009-12-16 05:06 t8xt Note Edited: 0022967
2009-12-16 05:08 t8xt File Added: scribus-newtext_20091512.png
2009-12-16 05:08 t8xt File Added: scribus-newlayers_20091512.png
2009-12-16 05:15 t8xt Note Edited: 0022967
2010-01-05 06:35 simanek Note Added: 0023034
2010-01-05 06:35 simanek File Added: Scribus_Palettes_Text.png
2010-04-26 20:57 Mike Note Added: 0023832
2010-04-26 20:57 Mike File Added: Properties.ui
2010-04-26 21:18 cbradney Note Added: 0023833
2010-04-26 22:09 Mike Note Added: 0023836
2010-07-29 01:50 mdcurtis Note Added: 0024403
2010-07-29 08:46 ale Note Added: 0024406
2010-07-29 08:49 ale Note Added: 0024407
2010-07-29 16:11 Mike Note Added: 0024408
2010-09-21 19:36 rdebel Tag Attached: palette
2010-10-14 19:43 cbradney Assigned To => jghali
2010-10-14 19:43 cbradney Status new => assigned
2016-01-19 16:41 Kunda File Added: XYZ-Tab.png
2016-01-19 16:41 Kunda File Added: Shape-Tab.png
2016-01-19 16:41 Kunda File Added: Line-Tab.png
2016-01-19 16:41 Kunda File Added: Text-Tab.png
2016-01-19 16:41 Kunda File Added: Image-Tab.png
2016-01-19 16:42 Kunda Note Added: 0038284
2016-01-19 16:42 Kunda Note Added: 0038285
2016-01-19 16:43 Kunda Patch => No
2016-01-19 16:43 Kunda Category User Interface => Properties Palette
2016-01-20 13:50 Kunda Summary Properties Palette/All Palette Window/Panel Management Improvement => Properties Palette/All Palette Window/Panel Management Improvement (mockup incl.)
2016-03-27 12:24 Kunda Tag Attached: indigodock
2016-12-09 06:17 cbradney Target Version => 1.5.4
2019-11-07 17:17 ale Note Added: 0047018
2019-11-07 17:17 ale Summary Properties Palette/All Palette Window/Panel Management Improvement (mockup incl.) => [OBSOLETE] Properties Palette/All Palette Window/Panel Management Improvement (mockup incl.)