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|ID||Project||Category||View Status||Date Submitted||Last Update|
|0002527||Scribus||Story Editor / Text Frames||public||2005-09-04 02:51||2010-11-08 21:43|
|Target Version||1.3.9||Fixed in Version||1.3.9.svn|
|Summary||0002527: Allow switching between traditional / standard and new German hyphenation as an alternative|
|Description||Most of my customers insist on using traditional /standard German. This includes standard hyphenation rules. Others are quite eager to apply the results of the never ending German spelling reform. What I really need is the possiblity to switch between standard and new German hyphenation in scribus. Currently, only the bad joke (new) option is available, which means I have to do hyphenation manually. This takes a lot of time.|
|Additional Information||This is really important, because the difference between hyphenating "Fenster" as "Fen-ster" or "Fens-ter" might have financial consequences!|
|Tags||No tags attached.|
||So, which one is currently in CVS, and is there another file you can provide? What does oo.org have?|
>>> So, which one is currently in CVS,
>>>and is there another file you can provide?
>>>What does oo.org have?
OO.o has both of them. There is a checkbox in the language settings where you can switch on spellchecking and hyphenation for traditional German.
||Ok, does that file work with current CVS unmodified? If not, please provide one that does. What should they be called? Note the "new" German is the official one, and should probably still be called "German".|
I suggest waiting some weeks. I just checked the informations on the newly erected "council for German spelling". It seems they are planning to revoke the current rules and return to the old ones. In this case, one could name the current package "reformed (1996)" and the former old "reformed (2005)/old". I know, clumsy, but it's part of the chaos the reformers caused some years ago.
BT": I know that French and Durch spelling were also reformed. While the Dutch reform didn't change much and passed without discussions (AFAIK), there seemed to be discussions in French speaking countries (paraître/paraitre etc.). What I don't know is if hyphenation changed at all. It may become relevant when implementing a spell checker, though.
||Do you have a link for this new information that they might change back?|
All in German, unfortunately. As an additional information, I can tell you that most major (and some minor ones too) German newspapers either completely or partially returned to old spelling. Partially includes hyphenation.
||One thing I forgot: the old/future hyphenation file works fine in 1.2.3cvs, 1.3, and 1.3.1cvs. It doesn't hyphenate that much (probably because it has been orphaned), but it doesn't enforce stupid hyphenation (which is good!).|
||Any progress on sorting out the two files?|
||I didn't encounter any problems with the "old" hyphenation file in the cvs snapshot from 23 september. I haven't built today's snapshout though.|
||well it hasnt changed.. what about the new one?|
actually, I'm not sure what you mean. Can you be more specific on the information you need?
||You said you wanted to have an old and new hyphenation file.........|
A file for new hyphenation is part of Scribus already. I linked to a file with traditional hyphenation in one of the comments above. It works perfectly well with Scribus 1.2.3, 1.2.4cvs, 1.3, 1.3.1cvs as of 23 september 2005. I have checked with all the versions.
||We need a license for this file, however I'm checking oo.org as you says its there too.|
Craig, I thought it was part of OO.o, but I was wrong. There exist spell checker and thesaurus files for reformed and traditional German, but no hyphenation file. I had to add it manually and replace the one for reformed German in OO.o 2.0
However, it's a myspell file. You can mail Björn Jacke (bjoern at j3e.de) on license questions.
||I have included it in CVS and his GPL note from OO.org 2.0, will be in public cvs in a few hours. I've emailed him to confirm its ok, but as all his files are GPL, and this is myspell as you say, there shouldn't be a problem.|
On 2005-12-19 at 02:13 +0100 Craig Bradney sent off:
>I'm wondering if your hyphenation file in
>http://j3e.de/myspell/de_OLDSPELL.zip is also released under the GPL? I would
>like to include it in Scribus.
>The aff file is and your other files relating to OO.org 2.0 are GPL. As this
>is the case, I have included it with the GPL note from OO.org 2.0.
>Please confirm that this is ok with you. Does this GPL note from OO.org 2.0
>apply to your OLDSPELL file too?
yes, that is GPL, too. I wonder wonder what spell checker you are
using for Scribus.
||Removed files again, he says they are LPPL, which is GPL incompatible unless he rerelease somehow.|
I'm not sure LGPL is incompatible with GPL.
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html says: "This is a free software license, but not a strong copyleft license, because it permits linking with non-free modules. It is compatible with the GNU GPL."
And even if it turns out, that, in this case, the LPGL is not compatible, why not ask Bjoern for permission as he's the copyright holder?
||LPPL, not LGPL: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html#TOCGPLIncompatibleLicenses|
||Sorry, I mis-read this. What about an option for separate downloads, as suggested for missing fonts?|
||Expecting a GPL compatible release of new files soon.|
||Cannot resolve as fixed unless this is supplied.|
I wonder why this issue has been closed. Björn said there is no licensing issue, and I just checked the LPPL license:
"You may distribute a complete, unmodified copy of The Program.
Distribution of only part of The Program is not allowed."
Scribus would only use the hyphenation file, and mentioning the licence either in a COPYRIGHT or README file, alternatively in the help files would be enough. After all, OO.o also uses the file, and it's LGPL. And even if the file would be changed, all one had to do is use another name (see LPPL).
||Get me a LGPL/GPL release note and I will include it. :)|
there is a copyright notice in the docs "The hyphenation dictionaries are covered by their own copyrights and licenses. Those are included with the hyphenation files".
Wouldn't it be enough to include a copy of the LPPL in the hyphenation dictionaries, e. g. in a README_DE_OL file. After all, the file will not be modified by the Scribus team, and if someone else intends to do so, he has been informed by the license file.
I'm a bit persistent here, because the reformed German hyphenation file is really bad and doesn't hyphenate as many words as possible, far from that, whereas the file with traditional hyphenation patterns seems to be quite mature and provides good results which can also be used in reformed spelling (reformed German spelling only allows more hyphenations, even if they don't make any sense, so traditional hyphenation is still correct, with one exception that doesn't work with the de_ol file anyway).
||The LPPL is not GPL compatible, so no, I'm not going to include it or any file governed by it unless we get a GPL compatible license for that file. As for the standard German file, have you tried replacing it with the current one from OO.org?|
"As for the standard German file, have you tried replacing it with the current one from OO.org?"
After OO.o's switch to Hunspell, would it work at all?
||I have contacted the author of the original dehypht.tex file and asked for release under a GPL compatible licence or written permission for distribution in a GPL project. I'd do the conversion and the testing myself in case he agrees.|
||For the time being I have added an article to the Wiki on how to download and use the LPPL file (http://wiki.scribus.net/index.php/Herk%C3%B6mmliche_deutsche_Silbentrennung_in_Scribus). So if the code is ready, I could update it for use with a file called "hyph_de_OL.dict". An updated doc (English, German Dutch) could be included in the help browser. That's the way OO.o currently handles the issue (separate download).|
||Any news from the author?|
||No. I've contacted another author of the file, without success. I'm now planning to do a hyphenation file myself, with some help from a German professor of linguistics. It'll take some time and testing, but if all works out well, we will one we can use, probably under the LGPL. Time frame: spring 2007.|
||For the time being I have created a Wiki article on how to download and to install the hyphenation file. The problem is that users have to rename and to copy the file, and delete or rename the original one. Hence my question: Is the code for using two German hyphenation files already there? If yes, what name would the file for traditional hyphenation need to work?|
cbradney, now that resources (like colour palettes or dictionaries) are finally separated from the code, I think we can add this file and its license to resource tree and add a menu entry for it. We could even make it the default for German, since it's much closer to the current rules and doesn't offer any hyphenation that's against them. What it doesn't offer, though, is hyphenation according to the rules of 1996 (as is the case with our current dictionary file), which have been modified in 2006.
In other words: It only provides hyphenations according to the current rules that make sense (and leaves out those that are possible, but don't make any sense). I've been asked during a Scribus training how to avoid the nonsensical hyphenation that may be the result of using our current dictionary!
Most importantly, the "traditional" dictionary doesn't convert "ck" to "k-k" in hyphenation, which is more or less the only thing that remained of the original reform rules (at least in practice). Plus, Scribus doesn't have any code for this, afaik. So what we can expect is better results that are still within the current framework.
|2005-09-04 02:51||christoph_s||New Issue|
|2005-09-04 10:23||cbradney||Note Added: 0006383|
|2005-09-04 18:05||christoph_s||Note Added: 0006392|
|2005-09-04 20:49||cbradney||Status||new => assigned|
|2005-09-04 20:49||cbradney||Assigned To||=> cbradney|
|2005-09-04 20:51||cbradney||Note Added: 0006396|
|2005-09-04 21:13||christoph_s||Note Added: 0006400|
|2005-09-04 21:25||cbradney||Note Added: 0006405|
|2005-09-04 22:39||christoph_s||Note Added: 0006413|
|2005-09-05 01:47||christoph_s||Note Added: 0006415|
|2005-09-25 19:52||cbradney||Note Added: 0006728|
|2005-09-25 20:14||christoph_s||Note Added: 0006732|
|2005-09-25 20:26||cbradney||Note Added: 0006733|
|2005-09-25 20:48||christoph_s||Note Added: 0006736|
|2005-09-25 20:53||cbradney||Note Added: 0006738|
|2005-09-25 21:08||christoph_s||Note Added: 0006742|
|2005-12-19 00:14||cbradney||Status||assigned => resolved|
|2005-12-19 00:14||cbradney||Fixed in Version||=> 1.3.2cvs|
|2005-12-19 00:14||cbradney||Resolution||open => fixed|
|2005-12-19 00:14||cbradney||Note Added: 0007769|
|2005-12-19 00:41||christoph_s||Status||resolved => feedback|
|2005-12-19 00:41||christoph_s||Resolution||fixed => reopened|
|2005-12-19 00:41||christoph_s||Note Added: 0007770|
|2005-12-19 01:14||cbradney||Note Added: 0007771|
|2005-12-19 07:42||cbradney||Status||feedback => resolved|
|2005-12-19 07:42||cbradney||Resolution||reopened => fixed|
|2005-12-19 07:42||cbradney||Note Added: 0007775|
|2005-12-19 08:57||cbradney||Status||resolved => feedback|
|2005-12-19 08:57||cbradney||Resolution||fixed => reopened|
|2005-12-19 08:57||cbradney||Note Added: 0007777|
|2005-12-19 19:55||christoph_s||Note Added: 0007787|
|2005-12-19 20:38||cbradney||Note Added: 0007788|
|2005-12-19 22:08||christoph_s||Note Added: 0007794|
|2005-12-19 23:05||cbradney||Status||feedback => assigned|
|2005-12-19 23:05||cbradney||Assigned To||cbradney => plinnell|
|2006-01-10 13:35||cbradney||Assigned To||plinnell => cbradney|
|2006-01-10 13:35||cbradney||Note Added: 0008002|
||Relationship added||related to 0003159|
|2006-05-16 22:05||christoph_s||Relationship added||child of 0003828|
|2006-05-20 23:35||christoph_s||Relationship added||related to 0003848|
|2006-07-19 21:19||cbradney||Status||assigned => resolved|
|2006-07-19 21:19||cbradney||Fixed in Version||1.3.2cvs =>|
|2006-07-19 21:19||cbradney||Resolution||reopened => won't fix|
|2006-07-19 21:19||cbradney||Note Added: 0011933|
|2006-07-19 21:20||cbradney||Status||resolved => closed|
|2006-07-30 18:29||christoph_s||Status||closed => feedback|
|2006-07-30 18:29||christoph_s||Resolution||won't fix => reopened|
|2006-07-30 18:29||christoph_s||Note Added: 0012053|
|2006-08-15 21:32||cbradney||Note Added: 0012197|
|2006-08-22 23:06||christoph_s||Note Added: 0012271|
|2006-08-23 21:22||cbradney||Note Added: 0012291|
|2006-08-23 22:04||christoph_s||Note Added: 0012292|
|2006-08-23 22:55||christoph_s||Note Added: 0012294|
|2006-08-26 21:18||cbradney||Note Added: 0012328|
|2006-08-27 00:13||christoph_s||Note Added: 0012329|
|2006-09-27 21:07||cbradney||Note Added: 0012662|
|2006-09-27 21:14||christoph_s||Note Added: 0012663|
|2006-09-27 21:18||christoph_s||Note Added: 0012665|
|2007-02-09 22:01||christoph_s||Relationship added||related to 0005322|
|2010-04-25 04:52||christoph_s||Note Added: 0023807|
|2010-04-25 04:52||christoph_s||Status||feedback => assigned|
|2010-11-08 21:41||christoph_s||Assigned To||cbradney => christoph_s|
|2010-11-08 21:41||christoph_s||Target Version||=> 1.3.9|
|2010-11-08 21:41||christoph_s||Status||assigned => resolved|
|2010-11-08 21:41||christoph_s||Resolution||reopened => fixed|
|2010-11-08 21:41||christoph_s||Status||resolved => closed|
|2010-11-08 21:43||christoph_s||Fixed in Version||=> 1.3.9.svn|
|2015-09-17 20:08||Kunda||Category||Story Editor / Text Frames => Story Ed/Txt Frames|
|2015-09-17 20:12||Kunda||Category||Story Ed/Txt Frames => Story Editor / Text Frames|