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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0003756ScribusStory Editor / Text Framespublic2016-04-04 03:17
Reporterchristoph_s Assigned To 
Status feedbackResolutionopen 
PlatformanyOSanyOS Versionany
Product Version1.3 
Summary0003756: Scale styles after rescaling frames^
DescriptionThis might be a bit tricky, but today I have found out how useful the feature would be. If one selects a group of image and text frames and rescales all of them, e.g. by using x,y,z in the PP, texts without paragraph styles are scaled down to a smaller size as well, but those _with_ styles aren't. It would be fine if Scribus would also produce a copy of the existing styles (e.g. name_of_style_scaled_counter. The trickiest bit will probably be finding the right values for font size and leading, since these don't work by simply applying the scaling value (e.g. /4). An Alogorithm would be required to fit the text in the frame the same way it has been fitted before. This includes the distances from frames (PP > Shape) as well, not to mention kerning, tracking, etc.


related to 0003778 new global replace for styles and properties 
child of 0003812 acknowledged Metabug: Grouped objects 



2006-05-06 11:51

administrator   ~0010998

There should be two scale modes for text in groups:

proportional, where the text is rescaled after layout, and
frame only, where just the frame borders are changed but
the text stays the same size (styles or no styles) and reflows.

Implementing the first by duplicating styles is a little too tricky
in my opinion.


2006-05-06 12:34

administrator   ~0010999

Last edited: 2006-05-06 12:35

I already thought this would be the case. What about changing styles accordingly, without duplication?


2006-05-06 13:07

administrator   ~0011000

What's wrong with just rescaling the whole frame proportionally after layout?
That way there won't be any reflow.


2006-05-06 13:12

administrator   ~0011001

avox, there's nothing wrong with it. It just happened to me that I had a document that needed to be rescaled to 1/4 of the original size. Later, it became necessary to add another text frame to the smaller document, and I could not use the paragraph style already defined for this kind of text.


2006-05-06 16:22

developer   ~0011007

Yes. That is an interesting issue. We do use the scaling function a lot in real life production, especially when you have to adapt the same ad for various publications. A global settings that allows to scale independently x and y is eventually a "must have" feature.

Now, on the stylesheet side of the issue, I realize the case you are submitting (adding a new text frame to a formerly reduced page) is interesting although I must say we don't come across this kind of issue very often. In the "ad" case I am thinking of, you would probably have to go back to your original layout before resizing again (a small-time operation), so you'd be using the same original stylesheet.

Nonetheless, if you'd need to do it the way you describe, I don't think we'd need "new" styles but "modified" ones (same name, "scaled" settings). We have to consider that the scaled document is like a new document, having its own stylesheet. I think. So why rename the styles?

There are some issues computing power just won't handle. Example: a 6-point text (credits or the like)... do you scale that at a 25% factor to get 1,5 point size? I mean, it is possible, of course. But unreadable!

A good "scaler" would allow to determine wether the thickness of the lines and borders would be also scaled or left untouched. A 2-point border scaled proportionnaly at 25% will become a half-point line with all the effect it can have on the layout. Think if only this 2-point line has a color or a tint applied to it... now figure what it would look as a "hairline" or close to it. This might create press issues.

We have to also warn users that placed images and eps graphics will be scaled as well. There too, there might be some fine tuning needed but can only be performed in an app that can actually do it. There is a limit to how thin a line can be. At least on the press!

Also, there are other styles we have to consider. They too must me scaled. To-come "character styles". Existing "line styles". To-come "frame styles". Etc.

The "scale styles" feature would be a great addition as a part of a larger "scaling feature". I am not aware other DTP apps are able to do that. I agree this would save time in production.


2006-05-06 17:34

administrator   ~0011011

louisdesjardins, as usual, I fully agree with you. I already gave up the idea of new styles. It will probably be unnecessary, since rescaling will most likely happen in a new doc. When it comes to font scaling, the algorithm would have to determine the right size of the font to fit proportionally in the smaller frame, including upper, lower, right and left space, leading, perhaps kerning and tracking as well. This is (unfortunately) not the same as scaling the font size by multiplier x.

As for the problems with too small (and too large) text, the user should perhaps be able to set a minimum/maximum size.

The same goes for lines, of course.


2006-05-09 19:46

reporter   ~0011180

Last edited: 2006-12-15 03:07

For scaling an entire document proportionally, including existing style definitions, global dimension replacement would be useful (see 0003778). Then the doc would be editable as normal with the new scale. Otherwise, for scaling only part of a document or scaling x and y separately, you probably don't want styled properties to scale, to maintain consistency with other elements with that style. (Although with selective style replacement per 0003778 you could manually make new scaled styles and apply them to a selection.)

How about allowing all size-related properties to be defined (in styles or directly) either absolutely or in terms of proportions? For example, line widths or text margins could be either 1pt or 1% of the frame width and would stay that way when the frame is scaled. (This is an aspect of my relative properties/object styles proposition.)

You could set min/max restraints on global replacement as well as proportional properties, though they should probably raise warnings when encountered since manual tweaking of the layout might then be required. And it would not be ideal to scale a group down, then later scale it back up and get different resulting sizes because of hitting a minimum size without warning on the way down.


2006-12-11 13:06

reporter   ~0013866

Last edited: 2006-12-11 13:09

I've just skimmed over the comments here.

The whole scaling thing for frames (not the text) seems to be less of a problem. For text (text sizes) there could be a more elegant solution, IMHO.

If you could specify the base text size (in the base text style, say 10.5 pt) and then use percentages in other styles that are BASED ON the base style (say, for headings 120% of base style), then you would only have to change one style and the rest would be scaled accordingly. The percentages should apply only when a style is based on another style. If no style is specified as the base, then the basic font properties (I can't recall the exact formulation because I'm typing this at work) in the Scribus' main config.

This type of style relations could also apply to other object properties like frame styles, line styles, you name it.

I myself prefer to change the styles myself so that I know what is going on. And would sure hate the multiple (duplicate) styles for everything. (I think that might become too much to clean up later, anyway.)


2006-12-11 14:43

administrator   ~0013867

Reminder sent to: Tsoots

Riku, it might be nice to allow +X% type entries for inherited styles in 1.3.4, or probably better, in 1.3.5 given the timeframe.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2006-05-06 01:41 christoph_s New Issue
2006-05-06 11:51 avox Note Added: 0010998
2006-05-06 12:34 christoph_s Note Added: 0010999
2006-05-06 12:35 christoph_s Note Edited: 0010999
2006-05-06 13:07 avox Note Added: 0011000
2006-05-06 13:12 christoph_s Note Added: 0011001
2006-05-06 16:22 louisdesjardins Note Added: 0011007
2006-05-06 17:34 christoph_s Note Added: 0011011
2006-05-06 17:48 mhanski Status new => feedback
2006-05-09 17:02 christoph_s Relationship added related to 0003778
2006-05-09 19:46 mkoren Note Added: 0011180
2006-05-13 16:51 christoph_s Relationship added child of 0003812
2006-12-11 13:06 foxbunny Note Added: 0013866
2006-12-11 13:09 foxbunny Note Edited: 0013866
2006-12-11 14:43 cbradney Note Added: 0013867
2006-12-15 03:07 mkoren Note Edited: 0011180
2015-09-17 20:08 Kunda Category Story Editor / Text Frames => Story Ed/Txt Frames
2015-09-17 20:12 Kunda Category Story Ed/Txt Frames => Story Editor / Text Frames
2016-04-04 03:17 Kunda Tag Attached: resize