View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0003911 | Scribus | Story Editor / Text Frames | public | 2006-06-13 01:53 | 2006-12-22 22:19 |
| Reporter | christoph_s | Assigned To | avox | ||
| Priority | normal | Severity | feature | Reproducibility | always |
| Status | closed | Resolution | fixed | ||
| Platform | any | OS | any | OS Version | any |
| Product Version | 1.3.4cvs | ||||
| Fixed in Version | 1.3.4cvs | ||||
| Summary | 0003911: Enable "forced" hyphenation | ||||
| Description | Currently it is impossible to enforce hyphenation for single words without changing the preferences (e.g. smallest word, consecutive hyphenations allowed, language). There are, however, situations that require a hyphenation despite of the general rules for a document. IMHO it would be useful if Scribus would either allow "forced hyphenation" in the prefs (checkbox or something like that), meaning that a Ctrl+ - will override the settings, or a special shortcut for this purpose. | ||||
| Additional Information | Character styles won't be a satisfying solution here, because creating a separate style for each required hyphenation is too time consuming. | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
| Patch | |||||
| related to | 0000577 | closed | cbradney | Paragraph Styles -> Kerning and language options missing |
| related to | 0001155 | acknowledged | Support non-breakable text blocks | |
| related to | 0001108 | assigned | avox | Let user specify hyphenation exceptions |
| related to | 0002576 | acknowledged | Add a GUI to create user dictionaries for hyphenation and short words (and spellchecking) | |
| related to | 0003094 | acknowledged | Add "hyphenation space" to hyphenation features (AKA hyphenation zone for ragged text) | |
| related to | 0000417 | acknowledged | hyphenate word by minimum *letters* options | |
| child of | 0003828 | acknowledged | Metabug: Hyphenation |
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what's wrong with Insert->Smart Hyphen ? |
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Smart hyphens don't work if they don't fit with the "smallest word" and "consecutive hyphenations allowed" settings. E.g. if only 2 consecutive hyphenations are allowed, one can't add a third one as an exception. We need an option to override the settings under special circumstances. |
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Currently a forced linebreak doesn't justify the current line (which I consider a bug). If a forced linebreak did not change the alignment of the current line, you could just type 'hyphen SHIFT-ENTER' to achieve your goal, no? Or would you prefer that "smarthyphen SHIFT-ENTER" also expands the smarthyphen? The current behaviour could be retrieved by typing "TAB SHIFT_ENTER", once we have a default right tab at the column end. Please note that with NLS a simple SHIFT-ENTER will pull words from previous lines to fill the manually broken one. |
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avox, I might be asleep at the wheel, but what is NLS? |
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NLS = new layout system. The one that does linebreak optimisation for whole paragraphs. Kind of like in TeX. |
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avox, I'm not sure we are talking about the same issue here. I was thinking of a real hyphen, not just a dash. By hyphen I mean something that will disappear if the word moves left or right/next line and the linebreak becomes obsolete -- just as a smart hyphen. The only difference in my proposal is that a forced hyphen would ignore the preferences, compared to a normal smart hyphen. As sn alternative, it would be possible to have an option in the hyphenation preferences "Allow overriding by smart hyphens" or something like that. But this approach would be a bit more inflexible. |
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christoph, until now I thought a forced hyphen implied a linebreak. How would a forced hyphen become obsolete? Or other way round, when would a forced hyphen be used to break the line? |
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Andreas, it's possible I haven't been clear enough. What I am thinking of is a "rude" smart hyphen that will force a linebreak (if it makes sense), no matter what the settings for consecutive hyphenation and/or smallest word are. Example: (-: automatic hyphen, =: smart hyphen, _: rude hyphen, 2 consectutive hyphenations permitted Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Ut a sapien. Ali- quam aliquet purus molestie dolor. Integer quis eros ut erat posuere dic= tum. Curabitur dignissim. Integer orci. Fusce vulputate lacus at ipsum. Quis_ que... BUT: Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Ut a sapien. Ali- quam aliquet purus molestie dolor. Integer quis eros ut erat posuere dic- tum. Curabitur dignissim. Integer orci. Fusce vul_pu=tate lacus at ipsum. In the second case, no hyphenation would occur, since it wouldn't make any sense, and the regular smart hyphen doesn't work, because only 2 consecutive hyphenations are allowed. This is one possibility. Another one would be "brute force" hyphenation, i.e. hyphenation in any case. Maybe it's necessary to offer both possibilities. The more I think about it, the more useful both options appear to me? Can you follow me? ;) |
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I think so but it sounds too complicated. You want another kind of smart hyphen which ignores the "max consecutive hyphens" setting? How would you explain that to users? IMO automatic hyphen, smart hyphen and hyphen+unconditional break are enough (plus some possibility to manually disallow hyphenation, e.g by placing a smart hyphen before a word). |
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>>>How would you explain that to users? E.g. by mentioning the feature in the docs. It would be enough to explain how the two types of smart hyphens work: 1. will only hyphenate if the settings permit 2. will hyphenate even if they don't. From a usability point of view, I really don't see a big issue here. >>>(plus some possibility to manually disallow hyphenation, e.g by placing a smart hyphen before a word) That'd be more like 2576, wouldn't it? As for the rest, the unconditional break may be enough. It's just that the "stronger" smart hyphen still might be a bit more sophisticated, because if column width or text size change, the hyphenation would disappear when it doesn't make sense any more. A forced break OTOH will remain in place. |
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christoph_s, that's the way it works in InDesign right? Using Ctrl+Shift+- IIRC? |
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>>>christoph_s, that's the way it works in InDesign right? PLucAuclair, I have no idea, because I don't have ID. Currently I can't even tell the Quark way since I have a new hard drive and freshly bought WinXP, and QXP has yet to be installed :( |
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I will check this with Quark and ID tomorrow and get back to you guys. :) |
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Quark: Hyphenation & Justification is set to max 3 consecutive hyphens. You have 2 ways to introduce a 4th consecutive hyphen. 1) Put a hard hyphen and SHIFT-RETURN (this is the most unelegant workaround) or 2) Change the H & J settings to 4 consecutive hyphens max. Note that the H & J settings applies to whole paragraphs and can be part of a stylesheet. I will get back with ID just as soon as I can. The idea of having a "smart-override-settings-hyphen" is very interesting. |
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Here's how the user-set hyphenation works in InDesign (I verified when I got had to work on it): To disable completely hyphenation of a word, you put the cursor before a word (e.g. |word) and activate Ctrl+Shift+-. When you want to force hyphenate somewhere, put the cursor where you want it (e.g. abs|tract) and once again activate Ctrl+Shift+-. |
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Yes but Quark also works that way. Exactly. The no-hyphen for "this" word prevents "this" word from being hyphenated no matter what the H & J settings is. The "hyphen here if needed" does not work against the general H & J settings. Si basically Quark has no answer to this particular bug report. You don't answer the question whether in ID the discretionary hyphen you introduce would ever force ID to put 4 hyphens (thus going against the rule the user establishes considering he/she puts 3 hyphens in a row maximum) in a row in a single paragraph. I am sorry I haven't had a chance to have a look at this at the office. Again, as soon as I can, I will check. Or you will, before I do! |
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That's right, I was not able so enforce it without inserting a non-breaking hyphen and a forced line return. |
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Ok, manual SmartHyphens are rude now. Now there's also a difference between SmartHyphens inserted by extras->hyphenate and those manually inserted by insert->character. The latter is stored as Unicode character in the file, the other is a flag. extras->dehyphenate currently only removes the hyphens inserted by hyphenate, manual hyphens can be deleted with backspace. if a word contains a manual SmartHyphen, extras->hyphenate will *not* try to hyphenate that word. |
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Oh yes, I forgot. The manual breaks (new line / column break / frame break) now justify the last line, unless they follow a space. So the old behaviour can be regained by inserting a space before the manual break. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2006-06-13 01:53 | christoph_s | New Issue | |
| 2006-06-13 01:54 | christoph_s | Relationship added | child of 0003828 |
| 2006-06-13 01:54 | christoph_s | Relationship added | related to 0000577 |
| 2006-06-13 01:55 | christoph_s | Relationship added | related to 0001155 |
| 2006-06-13 01:56 | christoph_s | Relationship added | related to 0001108 |
| 2006-06-13 01:56 | christoph_s | Relationship added | related to 0002576 |
| 2006-06-13 01:57 | christoph_s | Relationship added | related to 0003094 |
| 2006-06-13 01:58 | christoph_s | Relationship added | related to 0000417 |
| 2006-06-13 01:59 | christoph_s | Additional Information Updated | |
| 2006-06-15 19:13 | avox | Note Added: 0011646 | |
| 2006-06-15 19:19 | christoph_s | Note Added: 0011647 | |
| 2006-06-16 17:32 | avox | Status | new => assigned |
| 2006-06-16 17:32 | avox | Assigned To | => avox |
| 2006-06-16 17:40 | avox | Note Added: 0011649 | |
| 2006-06-16 23:25 | christoph_s | Note Added: 0011651 | |
| 2006-06-17 00:07 | avox | Note Added: 0011652 | |
| 2006-06-17 22:47 | christoph_s | Note Added: 0011660 | |
| 2006-06-19 20:47 | avox | Note Added: 0011663 | |
| 2006-06-19 21:27 | christoph_s | Note Added: 0011665 | |
| 2006-06-19 21:39 | avox | Note Added: 0011666 | |
| 2006-06-19 22:06 | christoph_s | Note Added: 0011667 | |
| 2006-06-20 16:11 | PLucAuclair | Note Added: 0011670 | |
| 2006-06-20 16:25 | christoph_s | Note Added: 0011671 | |
| 2006-06-21 02:43 | louisdesjardins | Note Added: 0011673 | |
| 2006-06-22 12:04 | louisdesjardins | Note Added: 0011682 | |
| 2006-06-24 21:04 | PLucAuclair | Note Added: 0011693 | |
| 2006-06-27 01:52 | louisdesjardins | Note Added: 0011701 | |
| 2006-07-03 21:44 | PLucAuclair | Note Added: 0011785 | |
| 2006-11-15 07:55 | avox | Status | assigned => resolved |
| 2006-11-15 07:55 | avox | Fixed in Version | => 1.3.4cvs |
| 2006-11-15 07:55 | avox | Resolution | open => fixed |
| 2006-11-15 07:55 | avox | Note Added: 0013412 | |
| 2006-11-15 08:02 | avox | Note Added: 0013413 | |
| 2006-12-22 22:19 | avox | Status | resolved => closed |
| 2015-09-17 20:08 | Kunda | Category | Story Editor / Text Frames => Story Ed/Txt Frames |
| 2015-09-17 20:12 | Kunda | Category | Story Ed/Txt Frames => Story Editor / Text Frames |
