View Issue Details
|ID||Project||Category||View Status||Date Submitted||Last Update|
|0003701||Scribus||Import / Export||public||2006-04-25 21:14||2016-12-29 21:38|
|Target Version||1.6 milestone|
|Summary||0003701: PDF export: better UI for Font Embedding|
|Description||File/Export/Save as PDF/Fonts:|
-- although "Embed all fonts" is checked by default, there are no fonts in "Fonts to embed" field
-- disabling "Embed all Fonts" and adding them manually to "Fonts to embed" doesn't work
This needs to be reworked to indicate which fonts are embedded and why some are converted to outline. Maybe a third list on the right side indicating which fonts are converted to outline on export
|Tags||No tags attached.|
|related to||0002276||closed||jghali||The register "Fonts" in the dialog "Save as PDF" is quite confusing (and has a bug).|
|related to||0004546||closed||fschmid||PDF Export: Despite "Do not embed fonts, do not subset" settings, Scribus converts fonts to outlines|
|has duplicate||0004091||closed||Problems embedding font & subset in PDF generation.|
|related to||0004523||closed||subik||"Embed all fonts" checkbox is not saved|
|related to||0004562||assigned||avox||PDF Export: Subsetting of OTF fonts (CFF variant) as Type1 subsets in PDF version < 1.6|
|related to||0004564||closed||avox||PDF Export: Subsetting of OTF fonts (TTF variant) as true TTF subsets in PDF version < 1.6|
|related to||0005441||closed||fschmid||Scribus 1.3.3.* refuses to embed perfectly embeddable TTF and PS fonts|
|child of||0003821||acknowledged||Metabug: Usability|
What kind of fonts are these ? Open Type fonts which are the large majority of fonts shipped with XP are not fully embeddable, but are always indicated as subset, which with OTF means converted to outlines.
I agree the UI is confusing, but on Win2k with TTF or Type 1 there is no issue. I can switched between embedded and subset easily and its working as designed.
Reminder sent to: jghali, jo-hannes
Jean, Johannes, please double check this works OK on XP with some non-Unicode True Type and/or Type 1 fonts. Works here on Win2k
embedding_fonts_win32.png (129,085 bytes)
embedding_fonts_win32.png (129,085 bytes)
Peter, first, thank you for investigating this issue and posting your answer http://nashi.altmuehlnet.de/pipermail/scribus/2006-April/017464.html -- this is not an easy one. OTF fonts with .ttf extensions + Scribus GUI build together a perfect pitfall for users -- you really need mrdocs to help you out of this:)
I'm reopening this to share some thoughts about the font embedding tab in File/Export/Save as PDF window (see the attached screen shot). I also would like to know, what jo-hannes and jghali think about this. We can change this issue to a feature request named "Improve font embedding handling of OTF fonts" or sth like that, if you want to.
As you can see on my screen shot, the font in question is Times New Roman TTF. As we know now, it's not really a TTF font, but OTF. There is no a hint in the GUI, that the font cannot be embedded. Some suggestions:
-- Rename "Embed all fonts" to "Embed all TTF and Type 1 fonts"
-- Extend tooltips of both checkboxes (and perhaps add one to the field "Available fonts") to reflect what you've found out about the misbehaviour of MS guys regarding the handling of OTF fonts
-- I wouldn't put the OTF fonts into the field "Available fonts", since you cannot really embed them, in fact there is nothing you can do about them in this dialog, whatever you click or try to do with them
-- If Scribus is able to recognise a "hidden" OTF font with a .ttf extension (which obviously is the case, since it's subset is converted to outlines by default), please consider giving the user some visual hint about it in the font list/name - from user's point of view, it's rather impossible to know the difference between the true TTF fonts and the wrapped ones.
-- jo-hannes, jghali: your suggestions?
||In reality, we just need to OTF embedding working.. stop making excuses for PDF 1.3, we just dont have the OTF embedding code.|
Embedded OTF fonts is only supported in PDF 1.6
Currently, when embedding is requested for an OTF font, Scribus converts it to outlines,
which is the right thing to do IMHO.
avox: if OTF cannot be embedded, then the user interaction in the font tab should be radically improved. The user should know, what's happening to him -- see my previous note on tooltips etc.
Additionally, the user can decide not to subset TTF or Type1 fonts, but he is forced to subset OTF fonts. Is there a technical reason that OTF fonts cannot be removed from the list to subset?
BTW, since there is not a real subset of OTF fonts after the export, just a bunch of outlines, there should be at least an extended tooltip about it, a title like "convert OTF to outlines" would be better -- the user can clearly expect, that Scribus makers mean "subset", if they write "subset".
A proposal for the new, less confusing font tab in pdf export:
X Embed all TTF and Type1 fonts
X Subset all fonts
Available TTF and Type1 fonts: || Fonts to embed:
Available fonts: || Fonts to subset:
|A bit OT: Would OTF embedding reduce file size at export?|
||In issue 2276, I've shared some thougts about integrating this in the UI. Please have a look.|
dragonia_nr4.pdf (1,801,154 bytes)
>Embedded OTF fonts is only supported in PDF 1.6
avox, I've uploaded an amateur linux magazine: dragonia_nr4.pdf. It's been made in Indesign. and if you go to the Document Properties in Acroread, you'll see the PDF version 1.4 and embedded MinionPro and MyriadPro in the Fonts tab. This confuses me a little, since both fonts are referred to as "Type 1" fonts, and I assumed there were only OTF versions of them.
What I'm going to ask now might be very dumb, but I'm risking it anyway: is it possible that Indesign performs some form of OTF to Type1 conversion before embedding the converted font subset into the pdf 1.4 file?
Yes, very likely.
OTF comes in two variants, a TTF variant and a CFF variant.
Fontfiles with extension *.otf are usually the CFF variant and CFF is just a compressed form of Type1 outlines.
<quote>Fontfiles with extension *.otf are usually the CFF variant and CFF is just a compressed form of Type1 outlines.</quote>
It sounds very promising:) Wouldn't it be doable for us too, to decompress the OTF/CFF fonts and embed their Type1 subsets into PDF < 1.6 while exporting to PDF?
I'm asking because the obligatory conversion to outlines causes major pain to e-zines authors -- they cannot force every potential reader to use acroread as a pdf viewer, and other pdf viewers display a horrible mess -- see the No 5 of the same magazine (the authors switched to Scribus:):
screenshot2.png (36,366 bytes)
screenshot2.png (36,366 bytes)
||added screenshot2 from now closed 0002276|
||Seems to be fixed in SVN.|
||@jghali please advise|
|2006-04-25 21:14||mhanski||New Issue|
||Status||new => resolved|
||Resolution||open => unable to reproduce|
||Assigned To||=> plinnell|
||Note Added: 0010453|
||Note Added: 0010456|
|2006-04-26 11:29||mhanski||Status||resolved => feedback|
|2006-04-26 11:29||mhanski||Resolution||unable to reproduce => reopened|
|2006-04-26 11:29||mhanski||File Added: embedding_fonts_win32.png|
|2006-04-26 12:00||mhanski||Note Added: 0010469|
|2006-04-26 12:03||mhanski||Note Edited: 0010469|
|2006-04-26 12:11||cbradney||Note Added: 0010471|
|2006-04-26 12:14||mhanski||Severity||major => feature|
|2006-04-26 12:14||mhanski||Summary||PDF export: fonts embedding doesn't work on windows => PDF export: OTF fonts embedding doesn't work|
|2006-04-26 12:14||mhanski||OS||windows xp => any|
|2006-04-26 12:14||mhanski||OS Version||=> any|
|2006-04-26 12:14||mhanski||Platform||=> any|
|2006-04-26 14:18||avox||Note Added: 0010484|
|2006-04-30 23:22||mhanski||Note Added: 0010716|
|2006-04-30 23:23||mhanski||Note Edited: 0010716|
|2006-04-30 23:34||mhanski||Note Edited: 0010716|
||Status||feedback => assigned|
||Resolution||reopened => open|
||Summary||PDF export: OTF fonts embedding doesn't work => PDF export: better UI for Font Embedding|
||Assigned To||plinnell =>|
||Status||assigned => acknowledged|
|2006-05-03 12:42||mhanski||Relationship added||related to 0002276|
|2006-05-03 15:49||PLucAuclair||Note Added: 0010833|
|2006-05-07 18:00||timi||Note Added: 0011064|
||Relationship added||has duplicate 0004091|
|2006-10-22 21:26||mhanski||Relationship added||child of 0003821|
|2006-11-14 11:24||mhanski||Relationship added||related to 0004523|
|2006-11-14 11:26||mhanski||Product Version||184.108.40.206 => 1.3|
|2006-11-17 02:10||mhanski||Relationship added||related to 0004546|
|2006-11-17 02:18||mhanski||File Added: dragonia_nr4.pdf|
|2006-11-17 02:35||mhanski||Note Added: 0013437|
|2006-11-17 02:53||avox||Note Added: 0013438|
|2006-11-17 10:25||mhanski||Note Added: 0013439|
|2006-11-17 10:45||mhanski||Description Updated|
|2006-11-21 11:11||mhanski||Relationship added||related to 0004562|
|2006-11-21 11:38||mhanski||Relationship added||related to 0004564|
|2007-04-10 19:49||mhanski||Relationship added||related to 0005441|
|2015-05-08 15:34||Kunda||Assigned To||=> avox|
|2015-05-08 15:34||Kunda||Status||acknowledged => assigned|
|2015-06-25 23:31||Kunda||Patch||=> No|
|2015-06-25 23:31||Kunda||Target Version||=> 1.6 milestone|
|2015-08-27 17:11||aliyousuf||Note Added: 0036105|
|2015-12-02 12:54||Kunda||File Added: screenshot2.png|
|2015-12-02 12:55||Kunda||Note Added: 0037790|
|2016-12-29 06:07||sommerluk||Note Added: 0043248|
|2016-12-29 21:38||Kunda||Note Added: 0043253|